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Tuesday, 13 October 2009

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Brett

You're right, it's a technically superior solution. But Google have poor form when it comes to digitisation:

http://weblogs.swarthmore.edu/burke/2009/10/13/digital-search-i-google-poisons-the-well/

Given that this stuff is out of copyright, I'd probably rather have a second-best solution that we can ensure will be freely available to all, than let Google suck everything into its gaping maw and possibly start charging Australians for something they used to get for free.

Bob Meade

Brett, good points. And the Swarthmore piece has some too.

A recent edition of the New Yorker has a pretty good deconstruction of the Google organization by Ken Auletta. Abstract here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/12/091012fa_fact_auletta

where the points are made that it is essentially a commercial entity.

However my point is that Google is making the "stuff" available. And more easily readable. And more easily searchable. In this case the "stuff" is old newspapers being put online.

But the hard copies of the newspapers are still there in the off site storage of the State Library of New South Wales, still owned by the people of New South Wales. And still available on microfilm for free at many places (for but two examples, the State Library of New South Wales; closer to home for you, The Baillieu.)

So, Australians will still have it available for free just as it is today. But maybe not for free online forever. But we don't have it free online at the moment anyway.

Our taxes are paying for the digitisation of the newspapers at the NLA, along with very generous support from Vincent Fairfax. The NLA is being sqeezed for their efficiency dividends required by the present government. Some of that saving could be made by getting Google on board.

Anyone who does not want to pay a fee which Google may impose in the future can return to the status quo as we know it today. Provided our libraries don't start throwing away newspapers to save space.

Brett

Absolutely, somebody has to pay for it, somewhere. I don't dispute that. But the danger is that, as Burke says, we're at a critical point where we we can go either open content or monopoly paywall. If we focus on penny-pinching arguments now we'll end up with the latter, and the same arguments will prevent us from reinventing the wheel at that point. (And yes, I do use microfilm newspapers and sometimes hardcopies in libraries. But libraries *will* ditch physical resources for digital ones eventually, because they are all being squeezed.) Seeing as we are already inventing a perfectly serviceable wheel in the shape of the NLA project, I'd like us to continue with that for the time being.

Bob Meade

OK, Brett, understood. I'm not convinced though that the NLA wheel is perfectly serviceable. I think it is managing to roll down the hill, but needs many human hands (the volunteers) to correct the OCR text.

Google seems to be scanning from clearer copies and possibly using superior OCR to text technology - thus increasing searchability.

When the NLA get their Sydney Morning Herald content online then we'll be able to do a like for like comparison - that is if Google continue to use their own content.

Greg Smith

It looks like the Google pages have been scanned in greyscale but the NLA scanning was bitonal.As far as I know the NLA shipped the OCR work to India and it seems to give average results only.

A local council here in Qld has put their local historic paper up on the web:

www.nambour-chronicle.com

You can text search on line but have to download page to see where your hits occur. The OCR seems to give better results than the NLA. Wonder what package they used and maybe the NLA Indian subcontactors need to update their software. Does anyone know anything about this paper and what was done?

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